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King Brayden I
His Majesty, The Emperor
His Majesty, The Emperor


Joined: 17 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:53 am    Post subject: Committee Discussion Reply with quote

Ok, here is where we will talk about what is to be included in the First Legal Code. If there is anything that should be included post it here. You should put the crime and the range of punishment to be used if someone is convicted. I'd like this to be as serious as possible so nothing goofy please. I'll post the official text of the Code in another topic and we'll vote on the finished product. We have until August 1st so let's get working.



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His Imperial and Most Serene Majesty Brayden I, by the Grace of God, Defender of the Faith, Emperor of Kirkland, King of Kirkland, Grand Duke of Alovia, Duke of Valoria and Symphona, Marquess and Head of the Most Noble and Ancient House of Drown, Earl of Drakon, Sovereign of the Most Noble Order of the Golden Eagle, Sovereign of the Noble Order of the Blue Garter, Sovereign of the Most Honorable Order of the White Stag, Sovereign of the Most Venerable Order of Saint Michael, Sovereign of the Most Excellent Order of the Silver Horn, Sovereign of the Distinguished Order of Merit, Knight of the Golden Eagle, Knight of Saint Thomas
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King Brayden I
His Majesty, The Emperor
His Majesty, The Emperor


Joined: 17 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done some research and I figure that basing our legal code off either the German legal code or the French legal code will be best. They are two of the most developed legal codes in the world and would be great starting points. However, since they are actually very different we have to pick one to be the primary influence on our system. Personally I like the German one, it is all encompassing and is actually used as a model by most countries across the world. What do you all think?

link to german legal code (This sends you to the table of contents. click on "General Part" to view from the beginning):
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/index.html

link to french legal code (click on the :Criminal Code of the French Republic" link and then use option "Open" and use "Adobe Reader" this will avoid saving the document to your computer):
http://www.legislationline.org/documents/section/criminal-codes/country/30



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His Imperial and Most Serene Majesty Brayden I, by the Grace of God, Defender of the Faith, Emperor of Kirkland, King of Kirkland, Grand Duke of Alovia, Duke of Valoria and Symphona, Marquess and Head of the Most Noble and Ancient House of Drown, Earl of Drakon, Sovereign of the Most Noble Order of the Golden Eagle, Sovereign of the Noble Order of the Blue Garter, Sovereign of the Most Honorable Order of the White Stag, Sovereign of the Most Venerable Order of Saint Michael, Sovereign of the Most Excellent Order of the Silver Horn, Sovereign of the Distinguished Order of Merit, Knight of the Golden Eagle, Knight of Saint Thomas
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Dakoda George
Grand Duke
Grand Duke


Joined: 07 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

French



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His Grace, Dakoda George, Grand Duke of Arlington, The Baron George, Chancellor of the Exchequer, Governor of the Royal Bank of Kirkland, Governor of the First Bank of Kirkland, Chairman of George Industries, Member of Parliament, Head of the House of George
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SLandes
Grand Duke
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Joined: 08 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the German one as well. As His Majesty has stated, it is the most widely used around the world and is rather easy to imitate. However, I say that we put off picking a model for now. We should start by listing all the areas to be covered by the code. This will create a framework in which to add law to the appropriate sections rather than piecemeal addition of random crimes.

I say that there should be 5 sections: Crime against individuals, Crimes against property, Crimes against the State, Crimes against life, and Crimes of Participation.

Crimes against Individuals would cover things like assault, battery, or sex crimes. Medical malpractice could go here because it is an action that happens on an individual basis.

Crime against Property would include things like theft, trespassing, embezzlement, or fraud.

Crimes against the State would include things like treason, releasing of classified information, espionage, or sedition.

Crimes against Life would include murder, manslaughter, or culpable homicide.

Crimes of Participation would include conspiracy, aiding and abetting a criminal, being an accomplice to a crime, and attempted crimes from the other categories (as they technically didn't occur but were attempted).

What do you all say about using a framework like this or something similar?



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His Grace, Stephen Landes, Grand Duke of Balromia, Archbishop of Drakon, Knight of the Golden Eagle, Knight of the White Stag, Knight of Merit, 1st Prime Minister
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King Brayden I
His Majesty, The Emperor
His Majesty, The Emperor


Joined: 17 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that idea. We can discuss the overall model later. For now I say we just use this framework. We also need to divide the crimes into degrees, like Murder in the First Degree and Second Degree etc and separate felonies from misdemeanors.

I say we adopt a policy similar to the US with regards to degrees of crime. 1st Degree should be the most serious and only be counted if a crime is premeditated, intentional, and deliberate. 2nd Degree would be a crime that is missing one of the three (like only being deliberate and intentional not all three). And 3rd Degree would only have one of the three criteria. Under this system 1st Degree crimes would be the most serious and carry the heaviest penalty with penalties decreasing as the degree decreases.

If we were to remove the Third Degree then I'd suggest we divide 2nd degree crimes into Voluntary and Involuntary. The difference between the two is that Voluntary would have to be show to have been intentional (and therefore existing in the 2nd Degree) while Involuntary would not (therefore technically existing in the 3rd Degree). Naturally, Involuntary crimes would not be as harshly punished as Voluntary crimes.

The big split between which degree to use in this system would be the determination of whether a crime was premeditated. If a crime is premeditated it would most of the time fall as a 1st Degree crime while if it wasn't premeditated it would be 2nd Degree maybe even Involuntary. In this system we would assume that a premeditated crime was both intentional and deliberate therefore giving the crime all three criteria and placing it in the 1st Degree.

What do you think about degrees?



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His Imperial and Most Serene Majesty Brayden I, by the Grace of God, Defender of the Faith, Emperor of Kirkland, King of Kirkland, Grand Duke of Alovia, Duke of Valoria and Symphona, Marquess and Head of the Most Noble and Ancient House of Drown, Earl of Drakon, Sovereign of the Most Noble Order of the Golden Eagle, Sovereign of the Noble Order of the Blue Garter, Sovereign of the Most Honorable Order of the White Stag, Sovereign of the Most Venerable Order of Saint Michael, Sovereign of the Most Excellent Order of the Silver Horn, Sovereign of the Distinguished Order of Merit, Knight of the Golden Eagle, Knight of Saint Thomas
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SLandes
Grand Duke
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Joined: 08 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say we use the Voluntary/Involuntary method where 1st Degree is determined by premeditation. It's somewhat more simple and can be implemented more easily. It's also a little easier to understand.



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His Grace, Stephen Landes, Grand Duke of Balromia, Archbishop of Drakon, Knight of the Golden Eagle, Knight of the White Stag, Knight of Merit, 1st Prime Minister
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King Brayden I
His Majesty, The Emperor
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, well it there aren't any other proposals for the degree system then we'll use that one



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His Imperial and Most Serene Majesty Brayden I, by the Grace of God, Defender of the Faith, Emperor of Kirkland, King of Kirkland, Grand Duke of Alovia, Duke of Valoria and Symphona, Marquess and Head of the Most Noble and Ancient House of Drown, Earl of Drakon, Sovereign of the Most Noble Order of the Golden Eagle, Sovereign of the Noble Order of the Blue Garter, Sovereign of the Most Honorable Order of the White Stag, Sovereign of the Most Venerable Order of Saint Michael, Sovereign of the Most Excellent Order of the Silver Horn, Sovereign of the Distinguished Order of Merit, Knight of the Golden Eagle, Knight of Saint Thomas
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King Brayden I
His Majesty, The Emperor
His Majesty, The Emperor


Joined: 17 Feb 2011
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since we have finished with the degree system I say we go back to the model issue. I like the outline given by His Grace, the Grand Duke of Balromia. It encompasses almost every area of law and can make for a good framework. If no one is opposed to this model then I will include it in the Things Agreed to topic as something we will include in the Code.



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His Imperial and Most Serene Majesty Brayden I, by the Grace of God, Defender of the Faith, Emperor of Kirkland, King of Kirkland, Grand Duke of Alovia, Duke of Valoria and Symphona, Marquess and Head of the Most Noble and Ancient House of Drown, Earl of Drakon, Sovereign of the Most Noble Order of the Golden Eagle, Sovereign of the Noble Order of the Blue Garter, Sovereign of the Most Honorable Order of the White Stag, Sovereign of the Most Venerable Order of Saint Michael, Sovereign of the Most Excellent Order of the Silver Horn, Sovereign of the Distinguished Order of Merit, Knight of the Golden Eagle, Knight of Saint Thomas
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SLandes
Grand Duke
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Joined: 08 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, how about we work on this section by section. Naturally we'll start with the first section which is Crimes against Individuals. We should list all the crimes to be included in this section and then work out the official legal jargon later.

I say at a minimum it should include assault, battery, sex crimes, medical malpractice not resulting in death, and breach of contract as stated in the original description. Is there anything else we should put in this section?



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His Grace, Stephen Landes, Grand Duke of Balromia, Archbishop of Drakon, Knight of the Golden Eagle, Knight of the White Stag, Knight of Merit, 1st Prime Minister
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King Brayden I
His Majesty, The Emperor
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Joined: 17 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well we could put libel and slander laws but that really depends on if we want that at all. Also there is the question of torts which i'd say we should include in some way.



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His Imperial and Most Serene Majesty Brayden I, by the Grace of God, Defender of the Faith, Emperor of Kirkland, King of Kirkland, Grand Duke of Alovia, Duke of Valoria and Symphona, Marquess and Head of the Most Noble and Ancient House of Drown, Earl of Drakon, Sovereign of the Most Noble Order of the Golden Eagle, Sovereign of the Noble Order of the Blue Garter, Sovereign of the Most Honorable Order of the White Stag, Sovereign of the Most Venerable Order of Saint Michael, Sovereign of the Most Excellent Order of the Silver Horn, Sovereign of the Distinguished Order of Merit, Knight of the Golden Eagle, Knight of Saint Thomas
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